Seiken Densetsu 3 - I MEAN, TRIALS OF MANA - Starter Guide

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#21

Post by Deepfake » Sun Oct 16, 2016 2:34 am

:lol: I know there were MMOs and MUDs before WoW, I used to play Ultima Online when it was new. I also knew about SD3 when it launched (and before that) because I was waiting fervently for a sequel to Secret of Mana, as it was a favorite of mine. I didn't get into it properly until later on, but I did touch on an import cart sometime in the late mid 90s. Obviously, people created terms to refer to status effects in a more naturalistic way. I can't remember what my brother and I called it in early days, we probably just used the spell names. I meant the language was not common and the ideas were not necessarily a given, and classes weren't a given in SD3 - nor were they the norm - nor should a designer presume the player would be familiar.
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#22

Post by Marilink » Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:50 am

Were those class distinctions really not the norm in 1995? Final Fantasy had character designs matching character "class" from the very beginning.
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#23

Post by Deepfake » Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:02 am

The only action game I'd played prior which actually had classes of any kind to choose from was Gauntlet, and that was almost entirely aesthetic. I actually can't think of any others. Different genre, different standards.
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#24

Post by Marilink » Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:22 am

^Fair. I guess I have always associated the Mana games more closely with RPG's than Action games, partially because I had very little concept of action games when I first played it (and its development by Square).
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#25

Post by Deepfake » Sun Oct 16, 2016 11:17 am

I understand why you would have that association, and while I own a copy at the time I wouldn't have advised anyone approach the first Final Fantasy. I think the inclusion of classes is okay overall, but I definitely think the game could've communicated its elements in a way that made it more than a blind choice. I didn't have anything like basic text elements to go on the first time I got to poke at the game, and understandably I didn't spend a lot of time with it so it didn't really matter, but I had basically no idea that it was possible to do something like choosing a bad party. Sometimes games from the time had a tendency to over-rely on peripheral media with inside knowledge, Square's were especially guilty of this.

So in that respect, this is a very good thread to have because it gives the player that nudge that they probably were expected to have from then-contemporary media.
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#26

Post by Marilink » Sun Oct 16, 2016 12:11 pm

^yeah, the original FF is pretty unplayable without certain updates and fixes along the way. FF is also way more punishing in how you pick your party, because you could easily pick a party that makes the game practically unplayable for a newcomer, despite good intentions. (I could see someone picking Thief, Monk, Black Mage, and Red Mage right off the bat. Ouch.) Thankfully, even though SD3 doesn't communicate the party specifics too explicitly, it really is impossible to pick a bad party. Any team composition can rightly get you through the game, which is at least a decent way of alleviating the problem of ambiguity.
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#27

Post by Deepfake » Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:41 am

BTW, looks like I was mistaken, I actually did buy a copy of SD3 while in Japan. Bahaha. Just not in the box. I do have copies of SD2/Secret of Mana from every region it was released, and the PAL and Japanese ones are boxed. I love the cover art and design for SD2 NTSC-J so much.
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#28

Post by Marilink » Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:05 pm

^Nice. Do you have a Super Famicom to play your Japanese releases on, or do you just bend the guard pins (or whatever you need to do to get them to play on an SNES)?
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#29

Post by Sim Kid » Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:33 pm

[QUOTE="Frederlink the Wise, post: 1611162, member: 23215"]Were those class distinctions really not the norm in 1995? Final Fantasy had character designs matching character "class" from the very beginning.[/QUOTE]


Though around 6 they started kinda going away from it, but at the very least you could tell "This must be a thief" when you see Locke and "This is o bviously a ninja" when Shadow first shows up.

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#30

Post by Deepfake » Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:17 am

[QUOTE="Frederlink the Wise, post: 1612725, member: 23215"]^Nice. Do you have a Super Famicom to play your Japanese releases on, or do you just bend the guard pins (or whatever you need to do to get them to play on an SNES)?[/QUOTE]
I have an adapter that piggybacks the chip from another cartridge, so nothing exciting. It's universal and fits all versions of the system. My copy of Mega Man & Bass is currently occupying the main slot.
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#31

Post by Sim Kid » Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:09 pm

Oh. Another thing to mention.

There actually is a fan patch out that fixes a few of the bugs in the game. The game itself is indeed pretty stable (the only issues I had were with the emulator), but apparently there are actually quite a bit of bugs in the game. Among these are that if you manage to bring up the menu in time, you can negate damage from a powerful attack or heal a character hwo just got knocked out but hadn't completed the animation (both of which I have done by accident, the latter of which I also only did ONCE.) There is also apparently another glitch where you are able to actually bypass your characters' stat caps by clearing a room full of enemies when you are close to level-up then walking into the next screen. One I DO know though is that the game cannot stack status effects on you. There are also a lot more - apparently Duran's shields don't really work, and evade/critical also doesn't work the way it should.

I was surprised at how buggy the game really was. o.O; then again, the bugs were cited as a reason for why it wasn't localised. (The others being a mixture of its size requiring a nonstandard cartridge, l i t t l e m o n e y, and it being late 1995 when it was out in Japan) I wonder if the amount of bugs in the game are also what's keeping it from getting any kind of enhanced remake - I can't find anything about it getting any kind of enhanced remake or rerelease, even with SE's recent iOS/Android rerelease fixation.

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#32

Post by Deepfake » Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:17 am

Yeah, Square's games from that era were horrible with bugs and a number of stats in their releases routinely did nothing at all/weren't counted by the engine. From what I know, many of the core preliminary assets from which SoM was derived were actually folded into Chrono Trigger. In that sense, CT in many ways is a sequel to SoM, and you can see that in the art and hefty fixation on elemental magics.
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#33

Post by Marilink » Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:26 am

Yeah, critical hit percentage is totally broken in SD3, and Agility does absolutely nothing except allow Hawk to learn spells.
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#34

Post by Auron » Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:53 am

So I've tried this game numerous times, enjoyed what I played of it, and then stopped for unknown reasons before hitting the end. My questions is, was there ever an official english version released somewhere or is it still that patched rom version? And if this question was answered already, my bad. I just kind of skimmed through the topic...

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#35

Post by Marilink » Thu Nov 10, 2016 12:00 pm

^Still the patched ROM. The game is just a little too broken for Square to have ever revisited it. Making a port would involve a bit more work than you'd generally want to put into a port, translation aside.
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#36

Post by smol Kat » Fri Nov 11, 2016 4:16 pm

I loved this game, but always got stuck fairly early on...
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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 Starter Guide

#37

Post by Marilink » Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:57 pm

INCREDIBLY RELEVANT NECRO-POST BECAUSE GUYS SD3 IS LOCALIZED NOW AND I'M SO HAPPY AND HONESTLY A LITTLE EMOTIONAL

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 - I MEAN, TRIALS OF MANA - Starter Guide

#38

Post by Calamity Panfan » Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:30 pm

i really wanna play it officially but the collection is $40 so I'm gonna wait till it's on sale.

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 - I MEAN, TRIALS OF MANA - Starter Guide

#39

Post by smol Kat » Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:06 pm

I'm certainly considering picking it up, but once I recover financially a little bit. As I said somewhere else the only Mana game I've ever actually finished is Legend of Mana, so I'd like to expand things!
mess with the NOOT you get a DOOT!

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Re: Seiken Densetsu 3 - I MEAN, TRIALS OF MANA - Starter Guide

#40

Post by Apollo the Just » Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:52 am

The announcement honestly made me really, REALLY want to actually finish this game. I really liked what I played of it however long ago but I think I just had a hard time getting invested in 2d sprite-based games at the time because I grew up with 3-D rendering and that was what was familiar to me. Now that I've pretty much overcome that bias, I am ready to play like 30 games I never got into for this reason!!!

Let me bop dabomstew on the ToS leaderboard and then I'll justify diving back into SD3. Kevin deserves it


E:
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Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:21 pm
I started SD3 literally forever ago, barely got that far becuase I had no idea what I was doing, and never finished, but I distinctly remember that Kevin was and probably still is ultimate husbando material.
Spoiler.
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EE:

Reading through this thread, I agree with AI in that the game itself really does not prepare you for or otherwise explain how the branching story/party composition variety works, AT ALL. That said, I think the fact that the game *has* that functionality is REALLY COOL. Every time I complain online about Dawn of the New World completely retconning one of the best of the original's 8 endings, some nerd goes "you can't expect a game to have 8 different canon storylines" and I get so FRUSTRATED because literally what SD3 did would be absolutely **** perfect and I wish I saw it in more games. Zelos/Sheena could have a Tethe'alla based story, Presea/Regal a story focused on Cruxis crystals, Raine/Genis a story focused on half-elves, and Colette/Lloyd a story focused more on Cruxis itself; whoever you pick would be the assumed ending from the original (picking Lloyd = Kratos's ending) (alternatively, Noishe, who should have evolved and been a party member) (I digress) and it would move forward from there. Anyway, I hate dotnw

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